Mark Gatiss brings E. Nesbit’s chilling short story Man-Size in Marble back to life in his seventh Ghost Story for Christmas.
In her final days, author Edith Nesbit recounts the chilling tale of newlywed Victorians Jack and Laura. The couple are settling into a small cottage in a quiet village when their idyll is overshadowed by the superstitious warnings of their housekeeper, Mrs Dorman, and the legend of the village church’s tomb effigies – a pair of marble knights who are said to rise from their slabs on Christmas Eve…
Written and directed by Mark Gatiss. Adapted from the short story Man-Size in Marble by E. Nesbit. A Ghost Story for Christmas: Woman of Stone is an Adorable Media production (1×30) for BBC Two and BBC iPlayer. It was commissioned by BBC Arts. The Producer for Adorable Media is Isibeal Balance and the Commissioning Editor for the BBC is Mark Bell.
A Ghost Story for Christmas: Woman of Stone airs on BBC Two and iPlayer at 10.15pm on Christmas Eve.
Interview with Mark Gatiss
Writer/director
What made you decide to adapt E. Nesbit for this year’s ghost story?
E. Nesbit’s Man-Size in Marble was the first ghost story I ever read, and it left a profound impression on me. I even referenced it in an episode of Doctor Who which I wrote for Peter Capaldi! I’ve wanted to adapt it before but the cost of constructing the marble tomb effigies was always slightly beyond us. Happily, this year we got a little cash injection which made it possible. Also, because last year’s story by Arthur Conan Doyle was entirely and deliberately male I wanted a stark contrast. Nesbit was an incredible woman and a fascinating writer. The adaptation is called Woman of Stone as I’ve tried to draw out what I think are the themes of the story.
Can you give a brief overview of what Woman of Stone is about?
Laura and Jack are a newly married Victorian couple who move into a countryside cottage. All seems well but there’s already trouble in the marriage. And the two marble tomb effigies in the local church seem to prey on Laura’s mind. Local legend says that, on Christmas Eve, the effigies get up and walk around…
Why is this particular story a good one to adapt for TV?
As ever, I’m guided by the quality of the story and what will fit neatly into the constraints of a very tight budget and shooting schedule! This story is very contained and has a small cast so I knew we could achieve it. But added to that I found it a very exciting challenge to adapt. There’s a lot of literature discussing what this story is ‘about’ and as I said, I’ve tried to draw out some of the those to give more of a ‘take’ on the story rather than a straightforward adaptation. I’m very pleased with it and I think it’s quietly powerful.
Audiences may not be familiar with the fact that E Nesbit wrote horror (because of her association with books like The Railway Children). What makes her an interesting horror writer and what separates her work from others, like MR James?
E. Nesbit was a remarkable woman. A founding member of the Fabian Society, bohemian and free-thinker she was a formidable and eccentric presence in many people’s lives, including H. G. Wells and George Bernard Shaw. I devoured Eleanor Fitzsimon’s brilliant biography and this gave me the idea of bookending the story with Edith Nesbit herself, telling the story somewhat more from her own perspective. There’s an extraordinary real-life incident in which the young Edith was taken to see some ‘mummies’ in France and the horror of it never left her. In fact it left her with a fear of inanimate things coming to life which is at the heart of the story.
You shot in a country estate in Berkshire – can you talk us through what the location added to the production?
My producer Isibeal Balance and I have had great good luck in the last few years finding various country estates which contain everything we need! With only five days to shoot the story it’s essential that everything is in close proximity. On The Mezzotint (2021) for example, we shot at Harrow School which had two churches and a golf course all on site! This year we filmed at an estate in Berkshire which again had everything we required within a stone’s throw of each other. The biggest problem was trying not to show just how close together everything is.
Can you talk us through the cast and what they each bring to the roles in the programme?
Celia Imrie plays E Nesbit. I’ve been a huge fan of Celia’s since I was a teenager when I first saw her in Victoria Wood – As Seen On TV. She’s a wonderful actor with a delicious twinkle and she brings so much warmth and tenderness to Edith Nesbit. I’d love to work with her again. She should play Edith in a biopic!
Éanna Hardwick plays Jack. I saw Éanna in the brilliant The Sixth Commandment and was knocked out by his portrayal of the killer. He sort of disappeared into the role. I was then lucky enough to meet him at the RTS Awards where we were up for the same award! Delightfully, he’d been to see the play I was doing, The Motive and the Cue, three times. I was very flattered! And when I was thinking of who could play Jack he sprang instantly to mind.
On the subject of the play, Phoebe Horn was in it too playing an actress called Linda Marsh. She was an entirely delightful cast member and we got to know each other very well. I knew she’d be perfect for Laura and, though this is Phoebe’s first TV role, she absolutely knocks it out of the park. She deserves to become a big star.
Mawaan Rizwan plays Dr Zubin. Again, I’m a fan! I adored Mawaan’s show Juice and couldn’t get over its freshness and mad energy. I was very keen to work with him so wrote the doctor with him in mind hoping he’d say yes. And he did! He even chose the character’s surname.
Finally, the amazing Monica Dolan plays Mrs Dorman. I know Monica a little bit but we’ve only worked together briefly, on Wolf Hall some years ago. She brings an extraordinary intensity and commitment to every part and Mrs Dorman is no exception. She really is one of the very best and I feel very fortunate to have her in the story.
What do you think viewers will enjoy about Woman in Stone?
All I can say is that I’m very pleased with the way it’s turned out and I think it’s quite a powerful story, whatever you decide it’s about! This is the first time the Ghost Story for Christmas has been an adaptation of a story written by a woman and I hope people will be intrigued by the tonal difference this makes. I hope they find it affecting and, of course, spooky!
Interview with Éanna Hardwicke
Jack Lorimer
Were you familiar with Mark Gatiss’ ghost stories for the BBC before you stepped into this one?
I was! Only as of last year as it happens. I saw the trailer for Lot No. 249 and thought that looks right up my street. I watched it with my brother on Christmas Eve and loved it.
Were you aware that E. Nesbit wrote horror stories and what did you make of Woman of Stone when you first read the script?
I have to hold my hands up here: I knew almost nothing about Edith Nesbit. When I was reading about her before shooting I discovered how prolific she was. She worked across just about every form you could imagine: novels, essays, short stories, children’s stories, ghost stories.
Talk us through Jack – who is he, how does he fit into the story and what did you find interesting about playing him?
He’s an aspiring artist, a bit of a dandy and not a good man. I was drawn to the fact that he is a bohemian type – and for whatever reason maybe you might be less likely to suspect someone like that of being abusive and controlling. He is a wolf in (sort of) sheep’s clothing. He has a charm, and a schtick which passes muster with some but which sharper eyes can see through. And behind closed doors he’s a different man altogether. So I thought it was a very truthful and strong choice in the writing.
How has it been working with Mark and the rest of the cast?
It’s great fun and a joy and very satisfying work. The dynamic comes from the top down and Mark creates a very playful, very joyful set. Many of the team who work on the Ghost Stories have done so for years now, so it’s a slick operation. And my scenes were with Phoebe, Mawaan and Monica who are such wonderful actors. Sadly I didn’t get to do anything with Celia, but it was lovely to cross paths.
And then wearing bowler hats and mutton chops is just good fun – so yes, it was a perfect week I think.
What do you think viewers will enjoy about this story?
It’s a proper ghost story – mysterious, chilling, truly frightening. I love ghost stories that land in that in-between space; we don’t know whether we believe or not, we don’t know if they’re of our own creation or inexplicably real. And then underneath the supernatural there are very real human monsters. So hopefully there are layers for an audience to unpack and be surprised by.
What makes ghost stories so fitting around Christmas time and do you have a favourite ghost story?
Something about the thin veil. The end of the year, winter, the colour of the whole season seems ripe for ghosts, as if at this time of the year we are more than usually close to the dead. My favourite Christmas ghost story – and I might be stretching the definition here – is Joyce’s The Dead. It captures that feeling perfectly. It’s tragic and wistful and mysterious and somehow soothing too. The John Huston film version of it is brilliant and an underappreciated Christmas film.
And then A Christmas Carol of course. I read it most years and it amazes me every year how utterly brilliant it is.
Interview with Phoebe Horn
Laura Lorimer
Were you familiar with Mark Gatiss’ ghost stories for the BBC before you stepped into this one?
I watched last Christmas’ – Lot No. 249 – to cheerlead Mark and John Heffernan (who’s also a dear friend) with my family and it did not disappoint, though I have to admit that was the first I had heard of the beloved Christmas Ghost Story!
The autumn before, at a press night, we cheered for Mark for having finalised casting for Lot No. 249 and were, of course, chuffed to bits for him. Then, in a full circle moment, this autumn we found ourselves in almost the exact same spot at a press party when Mark squeezed me, having just cast me in this year’s episode!
Were you aware that E. Nesbit wrote horror stories and what did you make of Woman of Stone when you first read the script?
Shamefully, like Doctor Zubin, I had only really heard of The Railway Children, having played The Old Gentleman when I was 11 (perfect casting TBH). I have since bought an E. Nesbit Ghost Story collection book and look forward to freaking myself out this Christmas at my mum’s cottage, which actually bears a spooky resemblance to Jack and Laura’s!
Woman of Stone quite candidly assesses the abuse and silencing of women – which was, and will always be, truly haunting. In Man Sized in Marble, Nesbit appears to be smuggling this narrative into an era of literature which wouldn’t otherwise have been welcomed, had it not been disguised behind the pursuits of men. What Mark has triumphantly achieved is to inject breath into these women’s stories, breath that invites interrogation, yet is somehow both festive and cynically magical, as is the Ghost Story way.Q: Talk us through Laura. Who is she, how does she fit into the story and what did you find interesting about playing her?
Laura is the wife of Jack Lorimer, an artist and herself a writer. I reckon she’s a far more successful writer than her husband sells her to be, so as not to feel emasculated by her relentless bread-winning. Mark has very delicately brought the fat to the surface of a simple soup by turning the temperature up on Nesbit’s limited description and dialogue for Laura. In her silence is a darkness. So for this retelling, she is more clearly very bruised and misused by Jack. His abusive behaviour becomes worse as he grows more paranoid.
Laura represents those abused of their youth, empathy and honesty: an ongoing cultural, universal injustice. In my head, she has so much love to give and it largely falls on deaf ears, until she meets Zubin. In another life… sigh. She is experiencing tremendous pain: of course she’s a brilliant writer! I like to think Laura would fit very well in the world of Thea Sharrock and Jonny Sweet’s Wicked Little Letters.
You’ve known Mark through working with him in theatre – what’s been your experience of working with him on a television project, with him in the director’s chair?
Mark is a very special person. From the moment we met on The Motive and the Cue, I felt scooped up and entirely supported by him. And the feeling was tenfold on Woman of Stone. Watching him expertly and graciously lead his communities through both has been such an honour.
How has it been working with the rest of the cast?
Monica Dolan is a master of her craft and having the privilege to act so closely alongside her is a total dream for me. Éanna’s generosity is boundless – I hope so much that we get to work together again. Mawaan is a Class A genius and brought buckets of joy to set. The whole creative team and crew were completely gorgeous. Truly cannot be faulted.
What do you think viewers will enjoy about this story?
It’s earnestness. And the sneaky redemption story…
What makes ghost stories so fitting around Christmas time and do you have a favourite ghost story?
This year will be the first that I engage in spooky stories at Christmas so… To Be Discovered! (Not) in answer to your question: I have always wanted to visit Pluckley Village (most haunted in Britain), particularly at Christmas in the snow! If you like ghost stories, and haven’t heard of Pluckley… there are podcasts. You’re welcome.
Interview with Mawaan Rizwan
Doctor Zubin
Were you familiar with Mark Gatiss’ ghost stories for the BBC before you stepped into this one?
Yes! I’ve been a big fan of Mark since League of Gentlemen. And I love spooky telly at Christmas.
Were you aware that E Nesbit wrote horror stories and what did you make of Woman in Stone when you first read the script?
No – like my character Zubin, I was only aware of her more mainstream classics. So you could say I’ve gone method. I was fascinated to discover another side to her and loved how Mark’s writing offered some interesting parallels and insights into her life, whilst still treating us to his signature style of creepy storytelling.
Talk us through Dr Zubin – who is he, how does he fit into the story and what did you find interesting about him?
Zubin is the local doctor and Edith is one of his patients whom he regularly visits – she’s quick- witted and tells charming stories and probably one of his favourites. What I found interesting about Zubin is that he lives in a town where most of the folks rely on him, yet he’s often made to feel like the outsider. I think he’s desperate to connect and so when he meets Edith (and in turn Laura) he sees a kindred spirit.
How did you find working with Mark and the rest of the cast?
It was a total joy. Mark is very collaborative and playful on set, which makes it a lot of fun. And Éanna, Phoebe & Monica are such brilliant performers.
What was it like working with Celia Imrie who plays E Nesbit?
I mean, Celia is a legend! On and off screen. I felt very lucky to be absorbing some of her approach and technique.
Your character spans two time zones – how did you tackle this duality in your performance?
The way I see it – even though Edith is fictionalising a story within a story, she is imbuing it with characters and experiences from her life. So the Zubin within the story still carries the same dreams, hopes, flaws and obstacles as the Zubin that Edith has got to know in her real life.
It was also fun sometimes to view the story within a story as a flashback fantasy of Edith’s. And the blurring of realities always evokes a ghostly feeling.
What do you think viewers will enjoy about this story?
It’s brilliantly mood evoking with an amazing cast (duh) and a fascinating insight into E. Nesbit’s life.
What makes ghost stories so fitting around Christmas time and do you have a favourite ghost story?
My favourite ghost story is one from my actual life! It’s too long to tell here but basically involves subletting a basement flat in Edinburgh. When I moved in, I learnt that it was connected to a four-storey Georgian town house. One night I came home to find the door that connected to the house was wide open and no one was in. I kept hearing weird noises coming from the house, so I went to tell my housemate who was staying in the spare room, but I saw that she was fast asleep.
The next day when I met her out in town, she told me she never came home that night. So I still have no idea who I saw sleeping in that spare room!
Interview with Celia Imrie
Edith Nesbitt
Were you familiar with Mark Gatiss’ ghost stories for the BBC before you stepped into this one?
I did know of Mark’s Ghost Stories when I was sent a script two or three years ago and was disappointed not to able to do it.
Were you aware that E Nesbit wrote horror stories and what did you make of Woman in Stone when you first read the script?
I had no idea E. Nesbit wrote horror stories, it was an unexpected surprise.
What did you find interesting about playing E Nesbit? Did you do much research to get into the part?
I was fascinated reading about E Nesbit’s life and appalled by what she had to endure at the hands of her husband. And understood then why she would want to write horror stories.
How did you find working with Mark and the cast – particularly Mawaan Rizwan who plays the Doctor?
I loved every minute of the day’s filming. Mark’s enthusiasm and encouragement made it a joy for me and for Mawaan Rizwan.
What do you think viewers will enjoy about this story?
I think the audience will be very surprised.
What makes ghost stories so fitting around Christmas time and do you have a favourite ghost story?
I didn’t realise Ghost Stories were a thing at Christmas. But I adore of all Dicken’s ghost stories.
Interview with Monica Dolan
Mrs Dorman
Were you familiar with Mark Gatiss’ ghost stories for the BBC before you stepped into this one?
I’d seen a several of Mark’s ghost stories for the BBC before – I was taken with an early one which involved a painting which kept moving on, depicting the actions of the characters [The Mezzotint, 2021] and the most recent one – Lot No. 249 – which starred a good friend of mine, John Heffernan.
Were you aware that E. Nesbit wrote horror stories and what did you make of Woman of Stone when you first read the script?
I had no idea that E. Nesbit wrote horror stories – I remember reading Five Children And It as a child, and of course the author is very famous for The Railway Children.
When I first read the script I was aware of the ancient juxtaposed with the modern, in that the stone effigies of medieval knights come to life (according to the storyteller, Mrs Dorman) whilst Mark has engaged us with a story of domestic violence that feels quite modern in tone – though, of course, is timeless in subject.
It is a world of history, legend and archaic tales introduced to us through the eyes of a young couple who are, in turn, seen through the eyes of the author Edith Nesbit, who is also present in the story as she awaits death. The layering of the time frames allows us to experience more of a sensation of mystery and sets the imagination free.
I found it useful to read the original short story, Man-size In Marble, as it gave me a little more background to the character and her function in the piece.
What did you find interesting about your character, Mrs Dorman?
Well, (I probably would say this!) I believe it is Mrs Dorman’s story and that it is she who is the woman of stone. She is very guarded, watchful and perceptive and, I suppose, can appear quite brittle, but I was actually very aware of her fundamental gentleness and empathy for those who are more vulnerable and need protection.
Mr Dorman has beaten her, I think, so she is hyper-aware of those signals in the relationships of those she sees around her. She is a creative and superb cook as well as a natural as a storyteller, but she is always careful of boundaries: there is something inhibited about her nature. She has been curbed. She does not fight but she resists, and she uses what means she has in a covert and subtle way but to decisive effect.
Mrs Dorman believes solidly in the supernatural, she sees it as something tangible, to be revered, and potentially harmful – something to be managed but undeniable. From her standpoint, those who do not take matters beyond themselves seriously do so at their peril. Mrs Dorman is damaged beyond repair and her world view is cast.
How did you find working with Mark and the rest of the cast?
It was very fun working with Mark and I was extremely proud to be working with such a talented and high-profile group of actors. Mark was very open to any questions, and even some changes – particularly my being keen to make sure it was clear that Mrs Dorman is fearful, so wants to avoid being in the village when the medieval knights walk on Christmas Eve to carry out their punishment and destruction.
Mark sent me pictures and stills from the shoot so, even though I might not have been in every day, I felt very involved and included and had an awareness of the world we were creating. He is gentle and kind on set but chatty and has a naughtiness and wit near the surface so it feels natural to open up. Mark is an interesting man. He is very passionate about his yearly ghost story for the BBC.
I had met Éanna before as we had both performed in poetry evenings at Dead Poets Live at the Notting Hill Coronet – I admired him hugely for his performance in The Sixth Commandment by Sarah Phelps. On set I found him to be a brave performer and so creative, committed and open.
I had most of my important scenes with Phoebe and I found it easy to connect with her and joyful to play with her. She makes you feel really safe and cared for while you are acting in a scene with her, which was important because some of the subject is quite harrowing and upsetting. She seems to allow herself to be vulnerable which, with the material, is so necessary and courageous. I met and sat beside Celia Imrie at the read-through and although that was the only point on the project at which we crossed paths, I was in awe and it was a highlight! Mrs Dorman has to tell a couple of stories so I was very appreciative of the generosity of the other actors in allowing me the space and for hearing Mrs Dorman out!
What do you think viewers will enjoy about this story?
I think the viewers will be taken with the three time-frames and will enjoy the mystery – those mysteries surrounding the author and within the piece itself. I think they will find it relatable in terms of modern relationships – I hope they will forgive Mrs Dorman and not judge her!
What makes ghost stories so fitting around Christmas time and do you have a favourite ghost story?
I suppose at Christmas particularly we are celebrating that which is eternal and ancient: the Christmas story itself feels mysterious, magical, and leaning towards the supernatural. Christmas is such a traditional feast with such a past – it reaches back through time and, I suppose ghosts exist in all time at once. The mid-December days are short, the nights are drawn in around us, and long enough for us to have time to imagine and to fear as well as to sleep!
Most of us are familiar with the famous ghost story A Christmas Carol and I have to admit I don’t know many other ghost stories – the scariest retellings are the encounters that acquaintances, friends or family have told me which they claim have happened to them. There is one story, though which I find affecting and chilling, profound and heartbreaking which, once again, is to do with ancient lore from a faraway land, a callous lesson brought in by a stranger. It is called The Monkey’s Paw by W. W. Jacobs and is a cautionary tale about human attempts at manipulation and resistance of fate.